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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, November 23 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1387<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Vargr (Was: Re: Weapons of mass destruction)<BR>
Re: Slavery was Re: Ideological Warfare...<BR>
Re: OT: Dogma<BR>
Re: Ideological Warfare<BR>
Re: SEC : UNCLASSIFIED - Re: Superpowers<BR>
OT Origins of Christianity and Roman Rumors<BR>
Re: SEC : UNCLASSIFIED - Re: Superpowers<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1380<BR>
Re: OT Origins of Christianity and Roman Rumors<BR>
Taikonauts!<BR>
Re: OT Origins of Christianity and Roman Rumors<BR>
re: Slavery<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1380<BR>
Re: Which Traveller?<BR>
Re: Which Traveller?<BR>
RE: Totally OT but ...<BR>
Re: Mass Destruction<BR>
Re: OT Origins of Christianity and Roman Rumors<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:52:17 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vargr (Was: Re: Weapons of mass destruction)<BR>
<BR>
At 22:39 -0500 22/11/99, Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>SD Mooney wrote:<BR>
> > The BITS book 'SpaceDogs' has notes on playing Vargr;<BR>
><BR>
>I have some BITS books (the 7 available from SJgames), but I want more.<BR>
>Where can I find MORE?<BR>
><BR>
>MUST... HAVE... BITS...<BR>
<BR>
OK - there are presently 7 101 Books so you probably have them all.<BR>
<BR>
The Long Way Home is now out of print, as is first edition 101 <BR>
Cargos(*) and first edition copies of the Traveller Bibliography.<BR>
<BR>
(*) The difference is that a new set of cargos were generated as Jo <BR>
Grant's originals were grabbed for JTAS by IG. SJG have always had <BR>
the second edition of this.<BR>
<BR>
But, 'SpaceDogs' and 'The Khiidkar Incident' are both out now. These <BR>
are 101 sized (ie LBB size) adventures with stats for GT and T4 and <BR>
notes on using the system with all Traveller editions. SJG will <BR>
probably have them in for Christmas. In the mean time, Leisure Games <BR>
in London have copies and Esdevium (big UK games supplier) probably <BR>
will too (if not now, pretty soon). FWIW these adventures were <BR>
released following the TMLs cries for adventures in the LBB style. If <BR>
they sell more, we have more to release; if not, well, we tried to <BR>
give people what they asked for!<BR>
<BR>
We're hoping to have the following out for Christmas:<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
At Close Quarters - Doug Berry's detailed combat rules for Traveller, <BR>
famous for Penguins.<BR>
<BR>
101 Patrons - over a hundred patrons for Traveller, including <BR>
material by Andy Slack (the 36 dramatic situations) and Thad Coons <BR>
(World Seeds as originally seen on the TML). This will be almost a <BR>
sequel to 101 Plots but bigger, harder (science) and better (IMO but <BR>
I edited and wrote a chunk of it).<BR>
<BR>
The Traveller Bibliography 2nd Edition - Timothy Collinson's <BR>
excellent guide to all things Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
Obviously, the release dates of this will be as soon as we can get <BR>
them out - we all work for a living (and sadly not in RPGs) and have <BR>
to fit in BITS work around real life. UK release usually predates US <BR>
release as SJG have to see the BITS book before they say yes and <BR>
order it.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:03:08 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Slavery was Re: Ideological Warfare...<BR>
<BR>
At 0:48 -0500 23/11/99, "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au> wrote:<BR>
>All of these were actually aloowed (if not welcomed) into Roman society, but<BR>
>when they worked against the Roman ways (gov't, etc.) were they repressed.<BR>
>Christianity was repressed because of it's belief that there is only one<BR>
>true god and that was heavily against Roman ways and it's belief in<BR>
>polythesionism.<BR>
<BR>
ISTR that there is was also a belief amongst contemporary Romans that <BR>
Christians (1) drank human blood and flesh in their ceremonies and <BR>
(2) went into the world trying to commit the worst sins they could, <BR>
to come back at the next service and boast about them.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:57:30 -0800<BR>
From: "Shawn Campbell" <shawn@electricstitch.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Dogma<BR>
<BR>
> >Go see this movie.  It's wonderfully funny, and makes you think about<BR>
> >religion and God as seperate subjects.  Alanis Morissette plays God and<BR>
> >pulls it off beautifully.<BR>
> <BR>
> Just what we need, a whiny Canadian singer as the Supreme Being. I'd<BR>
> rather have George Burns. :)<BR>
<BR>
OBTrav: George Burns... Grandfather?<BR>
<BR>
Shawn Campbell<BR>
shawn@electricstitch.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:59:42 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ideological Warfare<BR>
<BR>
At 4:45 -0500 23/11/99, "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net> wrote:<BR>
>Let's say the young Third Imperium had a competing state that was<BR>
>almost as large and powerful.  This competing state was actively<BR>
>courting systems to join it, and succeeding more often than the<BR>
>Imperium likes.  The Imperium and this state go to war time and<BR>
>again, but neither side can really defeat the other.  It's not<BR>
>racial, it's not ethnic, it's not religious, but both sides are<BR>
>going to grow to hate and despise each other.  Finally, the Imperium<BR>
>finds a way to capture their opponent's capital, and they make "an<BR>
>example" of it.  Then they offer "terms" to the rest of their<BR>
>opposition..."accept our terms or suffer the fate of Carthage."<BR>
><BR>
>Is this how the Julian Wars would have ended *if* the Imperium had<BR>
>won?  <g><BR>
<BR>
Welcome to Keshi, the former capital of the Chanestin Kingdom, now a <BR>
TL7 Low Population world.<BR>
<BR>
It's how the M0 Chanestin War ended...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 18:10:16 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: SEC : UNCLASSIFIED - Re: Superpowers<BR>
<BR>
At 12:39 -0500 23/11/99, Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net> wrote:<BR>
>Depending on the force mix, it could have been launched from the US (B-1,<BR>
>B-2, B-52) or by Naval Aviation off of carriers in the Adriatic.  Not quite<BR>
>as practical, but doable.<BR>
<BR>
Operating in the Adriatic needs the co-operation of the bordering <BR>
states, and the airborne attack would need to be based on stand off <BR>
weapons from outside any other counties airspace, which you would <BR>
violate by firing through it. Bear in mind NATO's air operations in <BR>
Kosovo had a serious impact on civilian flights in the regions...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:23:08 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: OT Origins of Christianity and Roman Rumors<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, SD Mooney wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 0:48 -0500 23/11/99, "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au> wrote:<BR>
> >All of these were actually aloowed (if not welcomed) into Roman society, but<BR>
> >when they worked against the Roman ways (gov't, etc.) were they repressed.<BR>
> >Christianity was repressed because of it's belief that there is only one<BR>
> >true god and that was heavily against Roman ways and it's belief in<BR>
> >polythesionism.<BR>
> <BR>
> ISTR that there is was also a belief amongst contemporary Romans that <BR>
> Christians (1) drank human blood and flesh in their ceremonies and <BR>
<BR>
This has been said about every oppressed religious or ethnic group since<BR>
time began, and shouldn't really be taken seriously... Christians used to <BR>
say this about the Jews, too.<BR>
<BR>
> (2) went into the world trying to commit the worst sins they could, <BR>
> to come back at the next service and boast about them.<BR>
> <BR>
Well, there were some Gnostics (the Carpocratians come to mind) that I<BR>
wouldn't have put that past.<BR>
<BR>
There were lots of flavors of Christianity in existence before the Council<BR>
of Nicaea declared all of the others heretics and produced an "official<BR>
version" that was strangely amenable to being used as a tool of<BR>
imperialist conquest by Constantine, who sponsored the Council.  Then the<BR>
official Christians went out and stamped out all the other versions and<BR>
did their best to destroy the holy books that all the other versions had.<BR>
<BR>
This is one of the reasons that I can't personally accept Christianity<BR>
based on Scripture.  There was a hell of a lot of Scripture that got<BR>
thrown out; the Bible Christians have today was heavily edited and revised<BR>
by many committees hundreds of years after the death of Jesus and none of<BR>
the Gospels were actually written down sooner than 100-200 years after his<BR>
death, though they may have been transmitted orally.  And as these were<BR>
not primarily oral cultures, I don't particularly trust oral transmission<BR>
from the Jews, Greeks and Romans of that era.<BR>
<BR>
We have not recovered anything close to all of the Gnostic Gospels.  While<BR>
I'm sure some of them were bogus I'm sure that the official ones, which<BR>
were heavily edited and revised, are not pure either.  It's difficult to<BR>
say, without all the evidence, what Jesus really was all about-- but one<BR>
thing that is historically clear is that there was a lot of uncertainty<BR>
even then, if you look at all the different varieties of Christianity that<BR>
existed prior to Constantine and all the different things they did.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, people who have had personal experiences with Jesus are a<BR>
different matter-- I don't question the personal experiences of others,<BR>
lest they should question what happened to me in Gokokuji Temple (when all<BR>
I originally intended to do there was find the grave of Ozaki Yutaka,<BR>
LOL!)  Religion and beliefs are intensely personal.  I did, however, lose<BR>
my last attachments to Christianity, which were incredibly tenuous to<BR>
begin with, in graduate school.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:19:33 -0500<BR>
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: SEC : UNCLASSIFIED - Re: Superpowers<BR>
<BR>
At 06:10 PM 11/23/1999 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
>At 12:39 -0500 23/11/99, Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net> wrote:<BR>
>>Depending on the force mix, it could have been launched from the US (B-1,<BR>
>>B-2, B-52) or by Naval Aviation off of carriers in the Adriatic.  Not quite<BR>
>>as practical, but doable.<BR>
><BR>
>Operating in the Adriatic needs the co-operation of the bordering states, <BR>
>and the airborne attack would need to be based on stand off weapons from <BR>
>outside any other counties airspace, which you would violate by firing <BR>
>through it. Bear in mind NATO's air operations in Kosovo had a serious <BR>
>impact on civilian flights in the regions...<BR>
<BR>
Unless the waters are restricted, they should be international and cleared <BR>
for free movement of shipping, and the carriers and their battle <BR>
group.  I'm not saying it is how it should have been done, only that it <BR>
_can_ be done.  The US based air power if it were to be used would have to <BR>
fly quite a roundabout route, and the only pinch point would be at the <BR>
entrance to the Med, at Gibraltar.<BR>
<BR>
Regarding the local air traffic, IIRC, our carriers operate with a declared <BR>
exclusion zone most of the time.  You start getting warnings some distance <BR>
away, then get an interception by the CAP, and if you approach within a <BR>
certain distance, other steps might be taken depending on the current <BR>
threat level.<BR>
<BR>
Again, it would not be the ideal way to do it, but it could be done.  I <BR>
know that were _I_ in charge, I would not force three to six CVBGs into the <BR>
Adriatic.<BR>
<BR>
Kurt Feltenberger<BR>
<BR>
"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>
    may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>
      ~Stephen Decatur<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:26:39 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1380<BR>
<BR>
From: DaveShayne <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<everything concerning rock dropping snipped><BR>
<BR>
It really seems like we've gotten to a point where I have to assume that<BR>
we'll need to agree to disagree. While I don't like taking that road, it's<BR>
apparent that your view of the way societies work and my view of the way<BR>
societies work simply have no common ground.<BR>
<BR>
In your view of the way human societies operate, there are free-floating<BR>
individualists, not cultures. In my view, cultures are, at least for the<BR>
most part, coherent, if not internally consistent. By your line, many things<BR>
that would have happened in the real world simply could not have happened,<BR>
and to be fair, by my line many things that would have happened in the world<BR>
also wouldn't have happened.<BR>
<BR>
It shows in those things that you wish to focus on, such as finding and<BR>
nailing individual Nazis in order to de-Nazify Germany, while in response to<BR>
that, I would point out that certain concepts and ideas were specifically<BR>
introduced into German culture after the war and were necessary to<BR>
de-Nazification process.<BR>
<BR>
On most points though, it seems like a continued discussion would simply be<BR>
a matter of us going through the motions, with me pushing the culturalist<BR>
line and you pushing the utilitarian individualist line.<BR>
<BR>
I'd be lying if I said the discussion wasn't fun though. ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:40:40 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Origins of Christianity and Roman Rumors<BR>
<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>> ISTR that there is was also a belief amongst contemporary Romans that<BR>
>> Christians (1) drank human blood and flesh in their ceremonies and<BR>
><BR>
>This has been said about every oppressed religious or ethnic group since<BR>
>time began, and shouldn't really be taken seriously... Christians used to<BR>
>say this about the Jews, too.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
You beat me to pointing out that this has been said about every oppressed<BR>
religious or ethnic group. There *is* one important distinction though:<BR>
<BR>
One of the things that has been central to Christianity since its earliest<BR>
days has been the sacrament of Communion. Tied in with that sacrament is the<BR>
concept of trans-substantion, in which the bread and wine are said to<BR>
*actually* become the body and blood of Christ.<BR>
<BR>
So, while the same rumors have floated about other oppressed religious<BR>
groups, had you walked up to your average Christian throughout most of the<BR>
history of Christianity and asked him or her if he partook of the flesh of<BR>
Christ, the answer would be yes.<BR>
<BR>
<snipped a large chunk concerning Biblical interpretation, which is<BR>
something I've dealt with way too much in the last few months ;) ><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:29:40 -0500<BR>
From: dennis.f.belanger@bellatlantic.com<BR>
Subject: Taikonauts!<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------- Forwarded by Dennis Belanger on 11/23/99 01:25 PM<BR>
- ---------------------------<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dennis Belanger<BR>
11/23/99 09:55 AM<BR>
<BR>
To:   traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
cc:<BR>
Subject:  OFF TOPIC (OT): Taikonauts!<BR>
<BR>
Jeesshhhh!!!<BR>
<BR>
     Where do I begin to defend what I said here?<BR>
<BR>
     The USA was founded on an individuals right to life, liberty, and the<BR>
pursuit of happiness. These basic elements are what is needed to sustain a free<BR>
democratic and CAPITALISTIC  society. Without a doubt, the most successful one<BR>
yet. By what measurement? The only yardstick that matters . . . . . . LIFE.<BR>
<BR>
     Over the past 200+ years, the USA has drawn to it people  who cared for<BR>
their own welfare first and the fruits of their mind and body a close second.<BR>
The net result of this freedom of mind and body is the most technologically<BR>
advanced, educated and well fed nation in the world. If the will of these free<BR>
producing people is to explore space, then that will happen in spades. While<BR>
some oppressive nations are trying to figure out how to keep it's populace from<BR>
fighting over the scraps it "gives" them, the free producing nation will be<BR>
spreading it's seeds to the stars. Human life will continue because individuals<BR>
chose it, not because a government demanded it.<BR>
<BR>
      I do not deny the contributions of non-US citizens to space exploration.<BR>
Remember where most of those individuals go to do their work and get fairly<BR>
compensated for it. I do refuse to celebrate the successes of dictatorships or<BR>
socialists. They will plant a flag on alien soil and exalt the sacrifices of<BR>
those who got them there.<BR>
<BR>
     I want to plant a flag on alien soil exalt the accomplishments of free will<BR>
and enterprise.<BR>
<BR>
I will speak no further about this on the list . . . . . I am warmly welcomed as<BR>
a gammer and for that I am thankful. You folks are the most scientifically<BR>
stimulating group I know.<BR>
<BR>
I will keep my ideology to myself from now on.<BR>
<BR>
Dennis<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:58:49 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Origins of Christianity and Roman Rumors<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> One of the things that has been central to Christianity since its earliest<BR>
> days has been the sacrament of Communion. Tied in with that sacrament is the<BR>
> concept of trans-substantion, in which the bread and wine are said to<BR>
> *actually* become the body and blood of Christ.<BR>
> <BR>
> So, while the same rumors have floated about other oppressed religious<BR>
> groups, had you walked up to your average Christian throughout most of the<BR>
> history of Christianity and asked him or her if he partook of the flesh of<BR>
> Christ, the answer would be yes.<BR>
<BR>
oh my.<BR>
<BR>
Tieing _this_ in with the oft discussed Vilani Cannibalism Hypothesis,<BR>
one is led to the conclusion that perhaps Jesus was a lost or rogue<BR>
Vilani...perhaps with a supply of slow drug and a nifty autodoc in a<BR>
cave near his headquarters...<BR>
<BR>
Naaahhh...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:58:50 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Slavery<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
Heck, I can even NOT pay the mortgage, and all that will happen is that<BR>
the bank will take back the house _they_ paid for. I will not be hunted<BR>
down, arrested, and forced back to my job paying the mortgage.<BR>
<BR>
A loan isn't indenture by any stretch of the imagination.<BR>
<BR>
If the bank said I had to keep working at Eneri's Widget Works until the<BR>
mortgage was paid off, and directly attached my earnings, _then_ I'd be<BR>
indentured.<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
Yup. For that, in the USA, you need a Family Court or Divorce Proceeding.<BR>
In many states, you can be jailed for not making your alimony payments. <BR>
Even if you've lost the high-paying job the alimony payments were<BR>
based on.<BR>
<BR>
I've heard of a case where the divorce settlement was a sizeable <BR>
percentage of a professional american football player's salary for his entire <BR>
career. After a year or two, he began to talk retirement...it's a tough<BR>
game, many people's bodies wear out, he said he'd made enough<BR>
money and wanted to get out while his body still worked. <BR>
<BR>
His ex-wife slapped a court order on him to keep playing. <BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:32:22 +0000<BR>
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1380<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, DaveShayne wrote:<BR>
>>From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
><BR>
>The peace was severely bungled after the great war. Germany was not occupied<BR>
>and onerous conditions were imposed on the germans by the alies. Which<BR>
>probably wouldn't have led to the next war if the depression hadn't<BR>
>destroyed the worlds economy and the french hadn't insisted that the germans continue<BR>
>to repay reparations. IMTU the 3I has learned this lesson well, "Don't kick<BR>
>somebody when they're down."<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I think modern research on German post-WWI reparations is along the lines of:<BR>
<BR>
- - Germany refused to pay reparations *and* repudiated the loans they had used to<BR>
pay reparations up to that point, *and* added to the problem by a massive<BR>
currency devaluation, and if you add up the numbers then in fact they<BR>
didn't pay much reparations at all to the victorious powers<BR>
<BR>
- - Reparations still had to be made, in the sense that someone had<BR>
to pay for the infrastructural damage of WWI, final result being that the<BR>
countries which had suffered war damage paid for it themselves<BR>
<BR>
- - Germany was never occupied during WWI, and for all the loss in manpower had<BR>
suffered very little damage on the home front, so effectively it ended paying<BR>
far less reparations than most of the other European belligerents, in the sense<BR>
that its own recovery was cheaper.<BR>
<BR>
The end result of the supposed enfeeblement of Germany was that by the 1930s<BR>
it was once again a superpower, capable of massive rearmament programs,<BR>
intervention in Spain and elsewhere, and ultimately the initiation of a series<BR>
of conflicts culminating in global war. <BR>
<BR>
And the second result is that Germany was able to engage in these adventures in<BR>
part because it was surrounded, in the West, by those countries which were<BR>
genuinely enfeebled by the cost of the previous war, and in the East by a<BR>
subdivision of Austria Hungary into a series of statelets which could<BR>
individually offer neither threat nor resistance to a revitalised Germany, but<BR>
which on the other hand acted as an protective buffer zone for Germany against<BR>
the Soviet Union as Germany recovered.<BR>
<BR>
Lesson being, "once they're down, make sure they stay down" (NB that doesn't<BR>
necessarily mean repression - for example one of the things not countenanced in<BR>
Wilson's redrawing of the European map in 1919 was substantive division of<BR>
Germany, other than anomalies such as Danzig and East Prussia).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Mark Watson, markw@antares.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:00:01 -0500<BR>
From: "Micheal D. Peters" <Travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Which Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
Subject: Which Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I am looking to pick up a starter set of Traveller. I used to have<BR>
Traveller<BR>
> Classic ...yeeeears ago. Now there is all kinds of editions. I don't have<BR>
a<BR>
> group ...so if I did play it would most likely be by PBEM. CT? GURPS?<BR>
T:NE?<BR>
> T4?<BR>
><BR>
> Help a newbie (sorta)<BR>
><BR>
> Tim MacPherson<BR>
<BR>
Well Tim, you've opened a can o' worms here! ;^)<BR>
<BR>
You'll surely here as many different answers as there are people on the TML!<BR>
Here's mine.<BR>
<BR>
I really believe that if your playing by email then , if your running a game<BR>
yourself, I'd concider buying the reprints of the CT version that Marc has<BR>
coming out, ot GURPS:Traveller, since both of these offer (or will offer in<BR>
the immediate future) large, and reasonably complete data bases to work<BR>
from.<BR>
<BR>
Most email games are combines of several versions, but since all but G:T and<BR>
TNE are basically updates of Classic Traveller, the reprints would be a good<BR>
start. So if your planing to be a player in someone elses game, I'd start<BR>
there then let your GM guide you if more specific information is required.<BR>
<BR>
Saying all this you might think I'm a CT fan, but really, since I got back<BR>
into the game a few years ago, I've been building a collection of<BR>
MegaTraveller stuff. For the most part I find that MT took the better parts<BR>
of CT and added some real time and effort saving features (task system,<BR>
integrated large scale combat, etc.), T4, dispite it's best efforts never<BR>
reached this stage of integration, in my opinion. G:T, since the base system<BR>
is so large, has these opertunities as well, however GURPS, as I've learned<BR>
from several gamse I've run, can get complicated, and IMHO doesn't lend well<BR>
to PEM (too many die rolls involved in combat, etc.). MT has the draw back<BR>
of being mostly expensive and hard to find.<BR>
<BR>
Humm, Hope some of this helps,<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:12:57 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Which Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
>From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
>Subject: Re: Which Traveller?<BR>
...<BR>
>www.levalet.com is also in Canada. And MT is the one true version, heathen.<BR>
<BR>
  MT? Speaking of things that collapse under the weight of their own<BR>
internal contradictions! :)<BR>
<BR>
  Oh, and Montreal is about as far from Lotusland as Birmingham is <BR>
from trans-Urals' Russia, and not much more pleasant to visit :)<BR>
<BR>
The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:11:31 -0600<BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Totally OT but ...<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Kurt Feltenberger [mailto:kurt@blazenet.net]<BR>
> <BR>
> IMO, this is yet another net legend.  When shipping a <BR>
> handgun, it must <BR>
> leave and arrive at an FFL holder's address so that it can be <BR>
> logged into <BR>
> their bound book, and then logged out when you take possession of the <BR>
> weapon.  <BR>
<BR>
Only on a transfer of ownership.<BR>
<BR>
> Unless the person in question held an FFL, I highly <BR>
> doubt Smith & <BR>
> Wesson would even consider shipping it.<BR>
<BR>
It happened.  You can ship your own firearm to/from the manufacturer since<BR>
no transfer of ownership happens.  You cannot use the USMail for handguns,<BR>
only longguns.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
From http://www.atf.treas.gov/core/firearms/information/faq/faq.htm<BR>
<BR>
(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the mails?<BR>
<BR>
A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his own State or<BR>
to a licensee in any State. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract<BR>
carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer a<BR>
handgun to a non licensed resident of another State.<BR>
<BR>
The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and<BR>
that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents<BR>
be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.<BR>
<BR>
A carrier must be notified that the shipment contains a firearm.<BR>
<BR>
In addition, Federal law prohibits common or contract carriers from<BR>
requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that<BR>
it contains a firearm.<BR>
<BR>
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A) and 922(e), 27 CFR 178.31]<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:19:43 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Mass Destruction<BR>
<BR>
Hey, don't destroy the planet, destroy the star!  Use a star trigger<BR>
(AM:8, Darrians), big disintegrator weapon (various MT sources) or fusion<BR>
catalyst (recent Nuke Damper discussion) to cause an instability there and<BR>
BOOM, a bad day for everything in the system!  <BR>
<BR>
Planets, as others have pointed out, are largely stable.  You can wipe out<BR>
all life on the planet easily enough, but actually blasting it into peices<BR>
is damn tough.  Accepting the previously given figure of 10^32 Joules (was<BR>
that Anthony Jackson?  Where did you get that?), you could smack a .1 C<BR>
rock into the world, but it would require a mass of around 10^17 kg. <BR>
That's on the order of 10^14 m^3!  Hmm, actually, a cube 50 km on a side<BR>
would almost do it. <BR>
<BR>
My math, feel free to correct: <BR>
(5E4 m)^3 = 1.25E14 m^3  (rock's volume)<BR>
1.25E14 m^3 * 5 tons/m^3 = 6.25E14 tons (rock's mass)<BR>
.5 * (6.24E14) * (3E7)^2 = 2.81E29 Joules (rock's KE at .1 C)<BR>
<BR>
Which is a little low for obliteration, but good enough for a terror<BR>
effect, I think :-). Of course, the mass gets much lower with higher<BR>
velocities.  How does the destruction energy change with planetary<BR>
diameter?<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, a thought just occurred to me.  What about peaceful use of near-c<BR>
rocks?  What if you had a world-sized object whose orbit was decaying such<BR>
that it posed a threat to another, inhabitted world?  Total obliteration<BR>
wouldn't be necessary, of course, but a spectacular "nudge" with a near-c<BR>
rock would be one way of dealing with it.  Wait, nope, if you can generate<BR>
that much thrust, why not just apply it to the world itself?  Or would you<BR>
get additional benefits from the impact...?  Just thinking out loud...<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:33:27 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Origins of Christianity and Roman Rumors<BR>
<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Tieing _this_ in with the oft discussed Vilani Cannibalism Hypothesis,<BR>
>one is led to the conclusion that perhaps Jesus was a lost or rogue<BR>
>Vilani...perhaps with a supply of slow drug and a nifty autodoc in a<BR>
>cave near his headquarters...<BR>
><BR>
>Naaahhh...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Back in the good ol' days of EC Comics, there was a story in Weird Science,<BR>
I believe, and it concerned a similar scenario.<BR>
<BR>
The Galactic Exploration Authority was doing its survey work. They<BR>
discovered one world in the early iron age and one of the scouts was dropped<BR>
off to learn about their culture, customs and language. On the way back<BR>
home, the rocket ship that had carried him was destroyed in an accident (I'm<BR>
pretty sure it got whacked by a rock). All records that this scout had been<BR>
assigned to this job were destroyed.<BR>
<BR>
The GEA scout was a nice enough chap, and he was disgusted by the conditions<BR>
on the world. He started doing the little things he could do to help. He<BR>
healed the sick with his advanced medicines, he fed the hungry with his<BR>
advanced survival rations. Word of his deeds eventually reached the upper<BR>
echelons of society. They had him captured and brought before them. They<BR>
demanded he feed and heal them instead of the wretched and the poor. He<BR>
refused.<BR>
<BR>
So, many years later, the GEA detects atomic bomb explosions on this planet.<BR>
They send out a group of scouts to make contact with this world they had<BR>
apparently missed the first time around. Once they get there, they discover<BR>
an advanced civilization, in the midst of 1950s style progress. They see<BR>
important looking buildings with stylized funny-looking symbols adorning<BR>
them, and they see folks with these same little symbols around their necks.<BR>
Finally, one of the scouts asks his guide what the symbol means. The guide<BR>
responds by telling them it represents the torture rack their saviour was<BR>
killed upon.<BR>
<BR>
Interestingly enough, although that story never came under fire, another<BR>
story did during the days of the first "Comics Code", another one did. This<BR>
concerned a scout visiting a planet in a full-body space suit. He contacted<BR>
the planet's civilization and found that a dominant group of aliens with one<BR>
skin color were oppressing another group with another skin color. They wish<BR>
to become part of the interstellar community, but he tells them that unless<BR>
they start acting like civilized beings they can't be allowed to enter. He<BR>
gets back on his ship and flies away. When he gets a moment to relax he<BR>
takes off his space helmet and it turns out that he's black, and that he's<BR>
crying.<BR>
<BR>
The first Comics Code authorities demanded that the character in the story<BR>
be changed to a white man. The folks at EC realized that the Comics Code<BR>
fellows had clearly missed the whole point of the story and they dropped out<BR>
of the organization.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1387<BR>
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